Beyond the AI Hype: The Human-Centred Blueprint for Modern CX Leadership
With Ana Herranz, Co-Founder, GameChangers People & Talent
“What I see in my coaching practice is that the real differentiator is not knowledge or technical skill, it's the human behind the leader.”
Ana Herranz
AI is moving faster than most decision cycles — and leadership has never been more complex. In this episode of The CX Algorithm Podcast, Dr. Eslam Afifi is joined by Ana Herranz, executive & HR coach and co-founder of Game Changers for People and Talent, to unpack what leadership needs to become in the AI era: not more technical… but more human.
Ana introduces a practical “inner algorithm” for modern leadership built on three elements:
1) The Mind (clarity & innovation) Under pressure, leaders default to convergent thinking (safe answers, repeat what worked before). Ana explains why innovation requires shifting to divergent thinking — creating cognitive space, asking “what are all the possible answers?”, and modelling learning over perfection.
2) The Body (presence & regulation) Leadership is a physical act. Stress shows up in tone, posture, breath, speed, and patience — often before words do. Ana shares why healthy habits matter, how simple rituals (like breathing and grounding) help shift from survival mode to leadership mode, and why asking for feedback is critical because body language can reveal what you don’t notice.
3) The Soul (purpose & authenticity) Purpose isn’t a single discovery moment — it’s built through action and attention. Ana shares a simple journal exercise: track daily activities and rate each by energy and engagement to identify patterns, find “flow” moments, and adjust your role (sometimes by delegating the energy-drainers rather than changing companies).
They also discuss a key practical challenge: your first three months in a new executive role. Ana explains why leaders must read the organization’s business cycle (growth vs mature vs restructuring), adapt their approach, and secure quick wins/pilots to earn buy-in.
Finally, they connect it all back to AI: how AI can create space for better thinking, why leaders must rethink team skills and structure (including working alongside AI agents), and why the real differentiator going forward is the human behind the leader.👤 About the Guest
Ana Herranz is an executive and HR coach with over 15 years of experience working across academia and industry. She has delivered more than 3,000 one-on-one coaching sessions with executives worldwide and facilitated over 400 workshops for large organisations. Ana is the co-founder of Game Changers for People and Talent, where she supports leaders and organisations in building human-centred, future-ready leadership.
In this episode
Why the human behind the leader matters more than technical expertise
How to shift from convergent to divergent thinking to spark innovation under pressure
Why your first three months depend on reading the company's business cycle
Why leadership is a physical act, and how breathing and posture regulate stress
How a daily journal rating energy and engagement helps you find purpose
How aligning mind, body and soul ultimately creates a better customer experience
How to rethink team skills and structure when AI agents join your team
Chapters
0:00 Welcome and introducing Ana Herranz
2:08 Why leadership has never been more complex
4:58 The human behind the leader
6:10 The mind: from convergent to divergent thinking
12:01 Your first three months as an executive
15:52 The body: leadership as a physical act
20:39 The soul: purpose, journaling and flow
27:11 Aligning mind, body and soul
32:15 AI agents and rethinking team skills
About Ana Herranz
Ana Herranz is the Co-Founder of GameChangers People & Talent and a highly experienced executive coach, leadership advisor, and career development expert with over 30 years of combined corporate and academic experience.
For 15 years, she led the Career Advancement Center for Working Professionals and Alumni at one of Europe's leading business schools, where she coached and advised thousands of professionals across a wide range of industries and functions.
Throughout her career, Ana has delivered more than 4,500 one-on-one coaching sessions and facilitated over 300 workshops focused on leadership, executive presence, high-performing teams, personal branding, and career development.
Passionate about helping individuals unlock their potential, lead with clarity, and navigate career transitions with confidence, Ana now partners with executives to design career paths aligned with their strengths, values, and purpose. Through her work at GameChangers People & Talent, she helps leaders accelerate their impact while building and sustaining high-performing teams in an increasingly dynamic business environment.
Resources mentioned
GameChangers People & Talent, Ana Herranz's company (Ana's co-founded company supporting leaders, introduced at the start of the episode)
TranscriptRead the full conversation22 min read · 5,135 words
Eslam Welcome to another episode of The CX Algorithm podcast. I'm Dr Eslam Afifi, and today I'm super, super excited to be joined by the amazing, wonderful Ana Herranz. Ana is one of the people that I've met throughout my career, and I have to say the impact she had on me is incredible. What she had made me to do, actually, is to rethink what leadership actually means. So, Ana, welcome to the podcast, welcome to the show.
Ana Thank you so much, Eslam. I feel really honored to be here and discuss about all these wonderful topics that we have for today. Thank you so much for inviting me.
Eslam Pleasure. It's an honor to have the hours. As not only someone who has an amazing experience, more than 15 years experience in academia and also in industry, and has an amazing track record of running more than one, 3,000 one-on-one sessions with executives across the world. Not only that, she delivered more than 400 workshops with large organizations. We're talking about someone who has an amazing experience to understand the true meaning of leadership and what does it mean to be a true leader and how do we actually impact change, not only on a C-suite level, but throughout the entire organization. But also what is amazing is her new philosophy around leadership translated into a new idea. Right now, she's a co-founder of the Game Changers for People and Talent. So I would love to start there. And if you can tell us a little bit more about your company and the vision behind the
Ana A company that would be great? Well, yeah, after working at a top business school where we met and having so many conversations with the leaders across the world, I realized that I wanted to have a bigger impact to help not only professionals, but also organizations, helping their leaders to thrive in the organizations, because what I know through my practice is that leadership is changing so much, especially right now with the new AI era, that is not something of the future, it's something we are currently living at. I think leaders need some support.
Eslam Great. I love that. Let's drill a little bit more here. When you say support, what in your thousand of years of experience, but also in the in a thousand hours, I would say, in terms of one-to-ones. How did that new challenge of AI look like to you? And why leadership is important then, ever?
Ana Well, I think leadership has never been more complex because, I mean, of course, the new AI tools about the hybrid teams spend out digital overload, constant transformation, and technology advances at such high speed that decisions are made with limited information. So leaders are expected to be innovative, bold, creative, with a lot of pressure. And at the same time, they should be able to convey authority and clarity in ambiguity. So what I see in my coaching practice is that the real differentiator is not knowledge or technical skill, it's the human behind the leader. So technical expertise gets you in the room, but what determines impact are the so-called soft skills that I like to call them human skills. And I would say there are three categories of those skills. First, those that help you manage yourself. So self-awareness, self-regulation. Then that's the group that helps you interact with others, leading teams, influencing, motivating, negotiating. And the third category would be those skills that help you envision the future for your organization, so this business acumen that how leaders see the forest is beyond the tree.
Ana So I think the conversation in this new era is going to move from performance to this being deeply human. Because performance, AI is going to be performing faster than humans. So the conversation is not going to be about performance. I mean, performance will be always fantastic.
Eslam Yeah, exactly.
Ana So I think it's a great moment for human interaction.
Eslam Absolutely.
Ana For understanding which are these human skills that machines will never have. So I think we are at a very interesting moment where our humanity becomes so relevant.
Eslam So I think it's really, that's a really great, that's a great one. But I'm gonna go back to this. And if I'm a board member and I'm looking to my C-suite, it's always about performance, right? And I totally agree with you, but what I love about what you just said is that idea that key that you see that human behind the leader. Can you tell us more about that? How do we actually as a leader, how do I see myself and how do I actually look at myself and evaluate, not even the way it says, and how do I actually see that human behind the leader, is there's a framework work as an element that we actually usually use in Q2.1 sessions?
Ana Well, there are three components of leadership, which is our mind that help us first get clarity and help us innovate as leaders. Second is our body because leadership is a physical act. We convey many things throughout our body language. And the third is the mind, which is the purpose that you have found as a leader. Because if you don't find this why that helps you moving on, you cannot inspire others. So I think these three elements are really, really key.
Eslam Can we just go one by one? Because this is really interesting. We talked right now about the mind and the soul. But I would love to go one by one. Which one would you like to start first?
Ana The mind.
Eslam Okay, let's go with him. Tell us more about that.
Ana Okay. So as we mentioned, leaders operate under constant cognitive pressure. Hundreds of decisions, information overload, emotional labor, non-stop context switching, and technology moving faster than decision cycles. So the thing is that under stress, our mind defaults to what is called convergent thinking. We choose the safest options, we repeat what worked before, we reduce risk instead of exploring new possibilities. So as you can imagine, this reactive mode kills more innovation. So we need to shift from convergent thinking to divergent thinking, which is the way of thinking that helps boost innovation. And if you think about it, in all our life, we've been taught on how to use convergent thinking. We were given pieces of information, we put them together, we did an analysis and we came with the best answer, and we were, when we were doing exams at school, we were asked which is the best solution to this problem. And divergent thinking is contrary to that, is from one idea you need to explore as many ideas as possible, even if they are totally crazy. And when you have that many ideas, you choose the ones that you think are the best.
Eslam But isn't that goes with our human nature? I'm a CEO of a new organization or I'm a C-suite member who just landed a new job. My default option is to go always the safest. I always try to do what I have known before. So how would I resist that? How would I actually not go into that kind of trap of repeating exactly what I have done before, taking it, it's because it's working before, it's
Ana Going to work again? Yeah. So first of all, you, you need, you need to be self-aware that this way of thinking is not going to lead to innovation. Okay, so first you need kind of slow down the mental noise and you need to create cognitive space to imagine alternatives. So one simple way of doing in this could be instead of asking your team what is the right answer, you should be asking what are all the possible answers. So it's about recognizing your own biases that limit creativity. It's about rewriting our internal narratives. Uh, we don't find the right answer, we think we are failing. Okay, so then we stop curiosity and experimentation. So we need to be, we need to try to have our mind calm, present, because then leadership will be become intentional instead of reactive, innovative instead of repetitive and decisive instead of impulsive.
Ana So we should spark creativity by modeling learning over perfection.
Eslam Right, I love that.
Ana What is difficult because we've always looked for perfection. So I think we need to shift into trying new things because we will learn new things and it will help us get novel ideas. So we should encourage experimentation and we should value diverse ideas across the table. Because innovation doesn't thrive in hurry, it thrives in clarity. So the mind is where innovation is born. So when leaders open their thinking, their teams open possibilities.
Eslam So it's so, so interesting. It's really interesting because this is exactly what we're talking about in this podcast is how the CX teams, customer experience teams, need that space for innovation. But the problem that they always face, that they always have, is that constant pressure to deliver. And sometimes because there's a very strong mandate, there's not much space or even freedom to move or to take action or to think. There's only one mandate. There's only one way of doing things. And that's why that freedom to be able to innovate is extremely important. But the thing is, you're absolutely right. It has to come from the top because if my C-suite doesn't have that room, doesn't have that mindset, it's going to be very difficult for the teams also to have that.
Ana Yeah. Well, we should find the right AI tools that can help us improve performance.
Eslam I love that.
Ana And then dedicate some time to give this a space for us to think, for us to become, for our team to develop new ideas and experiment. Through these experiments we will find innovations And if we find those innovations, we will be able to convince our C-suite that, well, this really works, and, and, and they, that they should instill and allow the organization to do that. Great.
Eslam Right. Yeah, sorry. My next question that I would love to know more about around that space, how to make that balance in a very short time? Because usually the first three months at the new C-suite or as new executives, you have that kind of struggle to get to that balance, right? Is there any tips in your one-to-one coaching that you could share with us in terms of how can I manage that pressure and at the same time to keep a balance between performance and still have that space mindset to have that true mindset to be able to lead the team to try new things, not to go in the regular and repeat exactly what I know. Because usually, to be honest, that's really what we see. Since we see our new CEO, new CEO, new CTO come in, it's exactly the same playbook that usually they have in the same industry.
Eslam So I just wanted to know if you have any tips or any advice that you can give us around how can we as leaders change that playbook?
Ana Well, if you are new in the organization, that's a very critical time. Your first three months in a new role in a new organization are very critical because all eyes are put on you. So first of all, you need to be very careful. You need to understand if this is a company that is growing fast or it is a mature organization or is a company that is going through a restructuring. So you need to understand which is the business cycle. the company is at. Because if the business cycle is rapid growth or rapid transformation, you are meant to act fast, to be decisive. If the organization is very mature, people won't like that you come in with the answers because they will might react, what are you talking about? We've been doing that for so long and we've been so successful.
Ana So in a mature organization, it's about influence, listening, meeting all the stakeholders, having conversations, having a clear understanding about the priorities and not coming with the answer. But in a growth or declining restructuring scenario, you are meant to act fast. So you should also meet, of course, the different teams, but take decisions quickly. So that's the first thing you need to read the culture, the business to the culture and to understand what is the behavior that they are expecting from you. Once you are clear on that, try to identify what, as a leader, you need to define, design the strategy, and I would recommend to identify some quick wins that will help you get the necessary authority. Okay. And buying from others. And maybe you can do some pilots because I mean, if you are new in the organization, they expect you to change things. So maybe you can do some pilots that can help you bring the case to the C-suite and convince them that, well, these were, well, why don't you, don't they allow for bigger pilots. So I think this could be a
Eslam Way. I think it's a perfect, I think it's a perfect start is the idea of looking at the life cycle of the company and trying to understand the culture and how then to fit in, and then apply the idea of the mindset of the, of the mind, of the innovation, of that thinking, once you have those quick wins out of that. Now let's move to the next component of your framework. This has been very interesting things so far, we're going to learn more. So the second one that we're going to go for is, it going
Ana To be the soul? I think the body, because, let's go with that, let's go with that. Okay, so, so as I said before, leadership is a physical act because the body communicates faster than the mind. So stress will show up in your tone of voice, your posture, breathing, speed of speech, loss of patience, the energy you have will drive performance, so you need to be careful of regulating your nervous system to improve clarity, okay, and to improve your leadership. So, there's two things that I would encourage. One, well, we all know, and there's tons of research, I mean, it's difficult to argue that, that having healthy habits, like healthy food habits, exercising regularly is good for our body. So, I think we need to make the time for that because sometimes as executives, we believe if we are too busy, we cannot afford some time for that, and I think we really need to take care of that because otherwise it will impact our leadership. And also we can include some rituals in our daily routine when we feel that stress that can help us regulate it. So like breathing, leading exercises that can help us shift from survival mode to leadership mode, grounding posture to project confidence and authority.
Ana The first time I read about posture, it seemed so astonishing to me because I didn't think that posture could affect your leadership, and it does because you think better of yourself.
Eslam Very true.
Ana And maybe this microprocess that helps you restore focus. So, yeah, we need to nurture our body.
Eslam Great way. Great way. One of the things that I'm really keen to know when we're talking about how to nurture our body and how to de-escalate that stress that comes to our body is why energy impacts empathy. There is a lot of research right now that's saying if you don't have the right level of energy, it's really hard for you to have the right empathy. and not only that, but also to have the right decision making. Of course, of course, because I
Ana Mean, if we care about our body, if we exercise, we, we have a healthy food, um, that will help and will help us reduce anxiety and be more energetic. And of course, our teens don't want to be a nervous us boss that lose patience and that is not able to regulate himself, so you cannot motivate people like that. Hey, you, you need to, to lead by example. I mean, our body state will affect our level of energy, self-regulation, and the way we, uh, motivate others. For sure. Again, that's a great, great type
Eslam Especially for a new leader on your new C-suite who just goes 24 7 and just lives on coffee and all day long, it's in the office. It's a great idea to give yourself a break and see how the energy level can impact not only the way you communicate but also the way that you are perceived by others. Any tips? Yes, on, more on the body, and how do we actually need to nurture our body, because again that's a great tip, and maybe some people might think small about it, but the impact is huge on
Ana I think that we need to ask for more feedback than we just usually do, okay? Because as we said your body language conveys things that you are not aware of. So I think we need to ask people how did I perform in this speech, how did you, what feedback can you give me, in which ways can I improve? Because, I mean, the first step of, of developing ourselves is self-awareness. So And sometimes we don't want to ask for feedback because we fear negative feedback, but without this negative feedback we won't be able to grow and change. So that's one recommendation that, that I will definitely recommend.
Eslam I'm now keen to know what you're going to say about the soul because the body was great, the mind was even great, but the soul one, that's the one I don't have any perception about. So I would love to know how would you approach that conversation with an executive about the soul?
Ana Well, the soul is like the compass of leadership. It's like your true north, okay? So it's the part that saves authenticity, trust. And many leaders operate from ego without realizing it. Titles, status, performance, always delivering, but no longer fulfilled. And this raises the question that many executives ask me, how can I find purpose, especially when I'm not clear on it? Well, purpose is not something you discover in one moment of enlightenment. Purpose is built through action, through noticing what energizes you, through trying, learning, adjusting, through which problems you love solving. So it lives in the intersection on what you're good at, what brings you energy and what impact you have on others. So again, it's a question of looking at yourself. So one very easy exercise that I recommend is keeping a journal, okay, or a diary.
Ana So every day you write down in your diary the different activities that you've done throughout the day, having meetings, responding emails, running in the morning, preparing dinner for my kids. I mean, not only professional things, but all the main activities that you've done throughout the day. And then you rate every activity by the level of energy and the level of engagement. And then after one month, I mean, each month you count and you check which were the activities that boosted engagement and energy. Why engagement is really, really key. I remember I remember one book I read titled Flow, Flow like the optimal experience. And this guy, whose name is so difficult, Mihaly, Chistian, Chistian, Mihaly.
Eslam That's the fact that you remember that, that's incredible.
Ana So this guy said that there's like two axes, challenge and skills, And that the flow channel is where you feel engaged because you have the skills, but to a level that is still challenging for you, you have the necessary challenge, but not as big as feeling anxious. So it's the perfect balance between having the skills and the challenge so that you feel totally engaged in doing something. It's when you realize, you look at your watch and you say, oh my God, two hours have passed by and I thought it was two minutes. So that's a moment of flow. OK, so you should be observant of yourself to identify those moments. And once you identify them, you need to dissect them. So to ask yourself, okay, with whom was I interacting, or maybe you were on your own with your computer, objects, was it, you seen, what was the context, then, by the environment, in the office, was I at home? So you can find the pattern of these moments of total flow, and maybe you can do a slight adjustments to do your, your job. Maybe you can identify things that you don't like, that, that drop your level of energy, and you can delegate that because you have someone in the team that is really good at that. So I've seen situations when people think, I need to leave my company because I don't like the company. But when you start asking questions you realize that it's not, I mean, it's not the company, is that you're doing something that you don't like doing, and maybe it's not that difficult to make some adjustments, so
Eslam You find more meaning in what you do. I love that idea. For you, what you refer to as a cat in canvas and how to use that soul as even to recognize when your values are misaligned with your behavior I love that. That gives us an indication of there's something wrong, there's something out of balance. And I would love to know more around how is that in-campus, how is that soul element of the equation can actually even guide you through even the tough time, even the crisis time? Because right now we're organizations, either it's with COVID, either it's to do with financial crisis, either it's to do with a merger, there's always crisis happening in the fall. How does the soul play a role in that space?
Ana Well, it, I mean, it really helps to, I mean, if you have reconnected with your why, your purpose, your decision making process will become simpler because as you have identified your north, your true north, it's just a question, is this decision helping me moving towards that north or not? So decision making will be way simpler and conversations will be more human because you are talking from your soul. You are not talking from, you're not talking about, you are humanizing the conversation and the teams will feel inspired. So I think it really helps. It really helps. I mean, these human leaderships that we were talking about begins, as you said, with behaviors and values that align. And then that's when leaders will shift from driving results, performance to inspiring others. Because if you inspire others, people will perform.
Ana I mean, performance will not be an issue.
Eslam Seriously, love that. One of the things that I'm really keen to see how the three of them works, because based on everything that we discussed so far, those three elements, sometimes it's obvious, and I have to say even self-reflection we are doing, we're focusing on one element, I'm maybe not focusing on another. Yeah, maybe, maybe I have the soul is very clear, but when it gets to the body, I'm not there. Maybe on the other way around. How do you actually, as a leader, how do you make that balance between the three components.
Ana Yeah, no. I mean, we need to integrate the three of them because otherwise we won't find balance. So if we are able to align them, we'll find this inner algorithm of leadership. So because if one system is misaligned, I mean, if we don't care about our body, we have found our purpose, maybe, but we will not be able to convey the message in such a powerful way because our body will tell something different. People want to follow leaders that are authentic. They need to believe in them. So, if your body conveys something that is not what you're saying, there's no authenticity there. And if you are not able to instill innovation in the organization, your organization will not thrive. I mean, your, your business will, your company will go out of business at some point. So this, this alignment will create stability, will create confidence, will create higher performance will, I mean, in the end, it will create a better customer experience.
Ana Because if all the people, if the leaders and their teams instill this alignment, everybody knows what they need to do and why they're meant to do that. They perform at their best. The clients will notice that. It's not only that their employees, it's that their clients will get the best experience. And if the clients get the best experience, the business will keep growing. And then, I mean, it's good for everyone.
Eslam Yeah, absolutely. It creates what we call a win-win situation. The idea to have that culture, the right culture in place is one of the most pivotal things. Without that culture, it's really hard to deliver. Because if you don't have that culture, there's no way you're going to make that change. You're going to make that impact. And I agree with you, if it doesn't come from the top, it's a very tough job for the middle management or even the front line to make that change because it needs to be a top bottom approach.
Ana Yes. So if it doesn't come from the top, I think we should try to build the case. I mean, we should take responsibility, don't expect these ideas coming from someone else. So how can we build the case to get the buy-in of everyone so they can see the benefits of instilling this leadership style and help people thrive?
Eslam Now, I'm going to go with a more practical question here. How can I do that? How can I make that change? If I say maybe I'm missing one of the three elements that we talked about, how do I actually ensure that I do that on a day-to-day? Is there any tips or exercise that you would actually, like, you really give us an exercise for the soul, which would be really loved. But how to make sure that this is not only something that we do once a time, once a year, but actually should do it on a regular day to day.
Ana Yeah. Well, everything starts from self-awareness. So you need to understand where you stand. So make an analysis. Okay, do I do something in my team to foster innovation, to provoke this divergent thinking? Do I take care about my body? Do I exercise regularly? Do I have a healthy diet? Do I find spaces, poses in my daily routine that can help me get calm?
Ana Do I have a fun, have I found my purpose? And if not, do I keep a diary that can help me identify this purpose? So, so that's the first kind of self-assessment of, of where you stand, and then I mean, make it easy for you. I mean, you cannot do everything at once. So think about the smallest steps that you can include in your routine to start changing the habits, okay? Yeah, absolutely. So, tiny things that can help you get into that different, I mean.
Eslam I love that. I would like to, because this is a great model, but we have to speak about what we spoke about earlier, AI and the impact of AI. We understand that there's a lot of jobs that might look different in a few years' time, maybe by early this year or maybe by next year. But as a leader, how would I need to integrate that? How do I need to look at AI from your own perspective?
Ana So I think that AI will really give leaders some space to think in a different way. We need to have this thinking. What skills do I need to improve to integrate AI and leadership in the best way? So, again, which are the AI tools that we could incorporate that can help us improve quality, fastness, performance, but which are the human skills that I could integrate that can help align AI and humans in the best way? Because it's like, you're going to have part of your team, you're going to have the AI agents.
Eslam Yes, that's true. That's very true. Yeah. But how would you, how would I still, sorry, go ahead.
Ana I mean, there's a lot to think about because maybe we need to reorganize the team in a better way. We need to assess the team and think if there are skills that we don't have that we need to bring into the team. We need to rethink about the processes we have. I mean, we need to rethink the whole strategy. But again, when we assess the team and the capabilities and the skills that we need to be performing at our best, maybe we need to include people or we need to develop skills in the team that are not system right now. And that can be critical.
Eslam That's a great point. That's a great point. I love your framework. I love the way you approach this. And I think this is a great way to be for us as leaders. It doesn't matter if we're talking about management, if we're talking about leadership, if we're talking about C-suite. Each of us needs to have that framework, those three components are a must nowadays. And it's a shame that we live in an era that's only focusing on technology and reforming without understanding the human behind that era. So, Ana, I can't thank you enough. This has been a great session. We absolutely love it. Love your views, love your perspective again. We'll have Ana's details on bio, on the details of the episodes. Please feel free to reach out. She's the most social person I've ever met. Please feel free to reach out to Ana And chat to her.
Eslam But thank you, Ana, so much. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.
Ana No, thank you so much, Eslam. I love the conversation. I think it's a great moment for a leader. So let's embrace it.
Eslam Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you, Ana. And thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
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